“Do I think it will ever be zero? No, I don’t”

[Minister for Children Tracey ] Martin said the level of harm at first had her “deeply disappointed and concerned”.

But understanding the detail behind some of the abuse permitted Martin a clearer view. For instance, a teenage girl over 16-years-old may choose to have sex with someone for alcohol, which would not break the law.
“Oranga Tamariki has a higher standard for the young woman in their care … they would still consider this is not appropriate, this is a level of harm we are not keen on. 

“Those numbers always concern me but we have to remember there are human beings in there with free-will.”

Both Moss and Martin said the number of children abused in state care needed to drop, but neither considered a target possible. 

Martin said: “Do I think it will ever be zero? No, I don’t, because I live in a real world.”